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Went tubeless - Help!!!

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Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by powerpro369 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:25 pm

I just picked my bike up from Franks after having the wheels trued and converted to tubeless. He said that over the next couple days the air will probably leak out of the tires and I will want to fill them up. He said this may last up to a week before all the sealant fills the pores of the tires. I started reading online how to properly fill a tubeless tire and it says CO2 or an air compressor. It also says that I should not use a hand pump...really? I thought I remember talking with some of the KMC guys and them saying they use a hand pump. Do I really need to invest in a air compressor? Can I not make small air adjustments with my hand pump any more? I am confused...HELP!!!!

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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by Zenkem on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:31 pm

You only need a compressor when you first mount the tires, a hand pump will be fine when adding small amounts of air. The best thing you can do right now is ride your bike so the sealant is continuously moved throughout the tire and rim. When I did mine with Stans they sealed within an hour and have yet to give me any trouble...

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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by spookyload on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:34 pm

Floor pump will be fine. They suggest the compressor for initial installation to set the bead. You can help with the pores sealing up by holding the wheel horizontal and swirling the sealant around the tire. Leave it sit overnight horizontal, then flip it over and do the other side the next day. You might not even need to do all that. I have never had an issue with the pores on a Racing Ralph. You will love the setup.
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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by eurotrash on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:08 pm

Never use CO2 on a tubeless tire unless it is an emergency. CO2 dissolves in water as carbonate anion, which precipitates as ammonium carbonate salt with the ammonium conjugate stabilizer associated with butadiene latex in the sealant. This starts polymerization and forms the notorious "latex boogers" in your tire. If you want a sealant that never seeps from pores, use my recipe that is seeing wide use by people over in the states. I engineered a better sealant than Stan's, starting in this post: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=8963507

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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by spookyload on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:29 pm

You just went Big Bang Theory uber geek on this John.
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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by powerpro369 on Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:44 am

Haha, John this is what I like about you and at the same time I am intimidated by you. You tend to talk WAY above my head and even if you were BS'ing me I would never know it. It is good to know that I can still use my floor pump. Thanks all for the helpful insite. Now I need to start riding.

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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by eurotrash on Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:15 am

Ha ha, yeah- I'm completely serious. It is my understanding of chemistry that has kept me employed. I needed a larger audience to drop the "open-source sealant" (OSS for short) project on, so I took it to MTBR. Besides, you can't tell nobody around here nothing when it comes to bikes! So the sealant has been a big success, once I get some containers to put it in I can pass out a batch for $10/qt to cover materials. Lasts twice as long as Stan's and costs less than half as much to make. Read that thread if you want to see how it all works.

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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by Jonesy on Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:58 am

eurotrash wrote:Never use CO2 on a tubeless tire unless it is an emergency. CO2 dissolves in water as carbonate anion, which precipitates as ammonium carbonate salt with the ammonium conjugate stabilizer associated with butadiene latex in the sealant. This starts polymerization and forms the notorious "latex boogers" in your tire. If you want a sealant that never seeps from pores, use my recipe that is seeing wide use by people over in the states. I engineered a better sealant than Stan's, starting in this post: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=8963507

Yeah.... all I understood of htis post was 'latex boogers' and CO-2 + tubeless = BAD! ... but I guess that's the key point...

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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by eurotrash on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:26 am

Don't get me wrong, use CO2 if you are on the trail. Just plan on cleaning out the goop with soapy water and adding new sealant after hosing your bike down after you get home. It won't last long with CO2. If your Stan's is more than 10 weeks old, I promise you will find your latex all boogered into a ball in your tire, even if you still have liquid in it. The liquid that remains is weak sauce, and any sealing that occurs at that point is from a few chunks plugging the hole and trail luck. This ain't about burps- you can seal a bead with tap water, but if you want a puncture to plug and stay plugged, you need good latex and fine chunks to bind with.

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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by Jonesy on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:51 am

eurotrash wrote:Don't get me wrong, use CO2 if you are on the trail. Just plan on cleaning out the goop with soapy water and adding new sealant after hosing your bike down after you get home. It won't last long with CO2. If your Stan's is more than 10 weeks old, I promise you will find your latex all boogered into a ball in your tire, even if you still have liquid in it. The liquid that remains is weak sauce, and any sealing that occurs at that point is from a few chunks plugging the hole and trail luck. This ain't about burps- you can seal a bead with tap water, but if you want a puncture to plug and stay plugged, you need good latex and fine chunks to bind with.
Now why couldn't you just say it like this the first time!? Razz

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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by PB Matrix on Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:44 pm

I'll take a QT of booger free OSS when ever you have it avalable
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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by Road_Rage on Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:44 pm

eurotrash wrote:Never use CO2 on a tubeless tire unless it is an emergency. CO2 dissolves in water as carbonate anion, which precipitates as ammonium carbonate salt with the ammonium conjugate stabilizer associated with butadiene latex in the sealant. This starts polymerization and forms the notorious "latex boogers" in your tire. If you want a sealant that never seeps from pores, use my recipe that is seeing wide use by people over in the states. I engineered a better sealant than Stan's, starting in this post: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=8963507

I was just about to say that.... lol! lol!
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Re: Went tubeless - Help!!!

Post by eurotrash on Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:05 pm

Read that thread, yo! I turned that forum on its ear, the post count jumped by hundreds when I brought that to the table. You will learn a lot about tubelessness.

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