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KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by spookyload on Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:01 pm

I just picked up a pair of bibs this week that would look great with these. They are solid black with the bottom two inches of the leg red. Sort of a red strip right around the bottom of the leg. It has white writing on the side vertically
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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by thedude76 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:25 pm

I am fine with how they look right now.

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by powerpro369 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:28 pm

I agree w/ thedude. No changes necessary

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by spookyload on Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:32 am

They look good. I wouldn't spend a lot of time editing the image. They Artists at Voler have software that makes exacting changes very quickly. I would send what you have and let them start the design. With Primal, you got two changes for free from the initial offering, so if the first return doesn't come right, they can change it.

Side note, at what point did we decide to take the flag off the jersey? Pretty sure that was on the design we voted for. Were it not, I would likely have voted for another option.
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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by Zenkem on Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:41 am

Kinda like the Flags myself, explains why your German sucks without trying to explain yourself...


Last edited by Zenkem on Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by powerpro369 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm

I didn't notice that the flags were not there. Everything else is perfect but I would, too, like to see the two flags.

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by Road_Rage on Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:38 pm

How about something across the pockets?
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Must have flags!

Post by airborne.s2000 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:28 am

I agree with spooky load and Zemkem; we need the flags.
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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by eurotrash on Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:20 pm

Here is the DS2 jersey with flags. I'm going to give my opinion, whether you want it or not- I think the flags on the collar brings us into the realm of the NASCAR jumpsuit. We have our name, logo, slogan, and website... that's a lot of information to place, yet it looks so beautifully clean! It is a group decision to make, so put your thoughts up. Also, the collar probably won't work with the freeride jerseys. I am open to suggestions. We could put the arm warmer design on the long sleeve jerseys, that may work. Arm warmers version 1.0 are below. Don't worry about the images not being crisp. This is just a small jpeg preview.



[br]
Edit: Another option would be to put the arm warmer flag "bands" on the side panels. Still may look a little too Cap'n Patriot, but it is a thought.


Last edited by eurotrash on Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by thedude76 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:39 pm

I think the arm warmer design on the LS jerseys would be sweet. As much as i like the idea of the flags on the jersey, i have to side with eurotrash on the nascar comment.

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by eurotrash on Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:44 pm

Voler told MJ that if we want to use the flags, we would have to pay both US and German tax on them. International law.

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by MJ on Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:16 pm

eurotrash wrote:Voler told MJ that if we want to use the flags, we would have to pay both US and German tax on them. International law.

Ya... Everyone knows how Germany regulates YouTube and music ... turns Out they are pretty proud of their flag as well.

My Solution would be Arm warmers mit stripes. Very Happy

I was hoping the fit kit would be here today, but nö. Hopefully tomorrow. Wie could meet at the Kleber gym from 1615-1700ish, Freitag for People to try on Jerseys?
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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by thedude76 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:21 pm

another option would be rings around the chain ring. Blue with stars and then red and white. Black red gold aound the other

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by spookyload on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:35 pm

That is odd. Primal didn't say anything about paying to use the flags. Neither did Northwave. Whatever we do, lets just get it turned in. Playing with the design isn't doing any good. The Voler artists are simply going to look at what we send them for reference, then start from scratch, so getting a HD quality image isn't going to help. All we are doing now by not sending it to them is delaying the delivery I still say flags since we are an American group riding in Germany. No reason to hide that. We don't have to do them on the collar, but simply putting them on the long sleeve and arm warmers doesn't work if you are only getting short sleeve. We sort of voted on a design, now that the vote is over, the design seems to be changing. I personally voted for this design because I liked the Rheinland logo and the K-town logo, but those also are both long gone for some reason.
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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by MJ on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:20 pm

Matt - I think we discussed this before you made the meeting. Voler works a little different. Our order deadline is the 29th. We won't actually work with the art department until the week of the 16th of November, however they encourage us to upload are art ASAP. Our ship week will remain the same, so long as we meet the order deadline.

You are right. We voted on a design, trying to avoid a repeat of last time, when the whole jersey changed.

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by Zenkem on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:50 pm

eurotrash wrote:Edit: Another option would be to put the arm warmer flag "bands" on the side panels. Still may look a little too Cap'n Patriot, but it is a thought.

I like this idea!!! I also like NASCAR, but then I agree with Matt...Get-R-Done already!!!

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by Jonesy on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:34 pm

eurotrash wrote:Voler told MJ that if we want to use the flags, we would have to pay both US and German tax on them. International law.
I'll be honest, I think this is Bovine-Feces their feeding us. Can't imagine why, other than they don't know what the hell they're talking about, but they are way off base.
Neither the US nor the German flag are protected by copyright (in either of their respective national codes OR internationally). The US flag is expressly public domain and the German flag is by default in the public domain.
The application of retail tax is based on the location of the buyer, seller OR somehow related to the 'location' of the transaction and has nothing to do with the imagery involved.
Again, not sure why they would give such a BS answer, other than sheer ignorance, but I say we kick it back and tell them to put the flags on, figure it out, or we take our business elsewhere.
And tomorrow, I'll tell you what I REALLY think!

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by Zenkem on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:43 pm

Jonesy wrote:
eurotrash wrote:Voler told MJ that if we want to use the flags, we would have to pay both US and German tax on them. International law.
I'll be honest, I think this is Bovine-Feces their feeding us. Can't imagine why, other than they don't know what the hell they're talking about, but they are way off base.
Neither the US nor the German flag are protected by copyright (in either of their respective national codes OR internationally). The US flag is expressly public domain and the German flag is by default in the public domain.
The application of retail tax is based on the location of the buyer, seller OR somehow related to the 'location' of the transaction and has nothing to do with the imagery involved.
Again, not sure why they would give such a BS answer, other than sheer ignorance, but I say we kick it back and tell them to put the flags on, figure it out, or we take our business elsewhere.
And tomorrow, I'll tell you what I REALLY think!

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by MJ on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:29 pm

The EPA estimates that about 28% of methane emissions are from bovine-feces, emissions, and belching.
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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by BigWheels on Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:20 am

We voted on a design with the flags, therefore we must go forward with that design or we throw the entire democratic process out the window, likening our club to the Venezuelan government. We also do not have the time to go through the voting process again. I personnally do not feel that 2 small flags, our FKing American flag being one of them, pushes us into the realm of NASCAR.

The issue with Voler and charging the tax needs more answers like how much, and are you shtting me? I would be interested in knowing how much they want, and what law or piece of legislation they are basing this on. These issues, along with needing the majority of the team to come together to try on clothes for sizing may justify a meeting next week. Mr. President, would you care to comment?

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by eurotrash on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:12 am

Yes, we're shttng you. For real. Like, pulling your leg about the taxes. The fashion police were trying to save us from ourselves.

Listen up. Those at the meeting should recall the process proposed, and the discussion that followed. Here's a recap- online votes were tallied, and images of the two winning designs were produced for perusal. With fresh images in mind, those who did not vote online voted in person. It was decided that DS2 would be the design, and there was much rejoicing. Then, all offical-like, I volunteered to convert Mike's MS Paint sketch into a proper piece of design work using my tools and skills. At that point, I very explicitly put forward the adjustments- the color scheme and pattern was agreed upon, everyone nodded. The fonts might have to change, that was okay with those in attendance. The stripe pattern would be transferred to the sleeves in a way that works. By unanimous consensus, the necessity for some artistic leeway was granted in return for a refined design. Everyone demonstrated their understanding and agreement with a raised-hand vote.

I took my liberty with the flags and crests. After transferring the stripe pattern to the sleeves, I realized it may not work out, and here's why. The stripes (front, back, and sleeves) all match in size and in sequence. This is key to making the design flow. Your conscious may not be aware, but your brain knows when something is in- or off- balance. Next, I had to make the color flow work with the cut of the jersey- the back is black, and the shoulders are red, and this was not addressed in the first edition sketch. The result has flow and balance, it really looks sharp- Mike had a brilliant design scheme. Now, the problem with placing the crests with the stripes is the Raglan sleeves. I can remove the website from the sleeve and put the crests and an acceptable flag design on. If crests are put above the stripes, they will be epaulettes, not shoulder patches. That will not work at all. So it can be done, and I'll put a design out for you guys to pick apart until we all hate each other. We'll put up some choices, refine the idea, and go forward with it, built on the general theme of the selected jersey. There would not be another election, only a feedback process to please the greatest amount of folks with the least amount of back-and-forth. That was the agreement at the meeting.

Take this all lightly, we don't want this to get ugly. Bad on us for not getting minutes posted, and bad on y'all for not attending and taking part in the process. Life gets busy, I know, but the administration of club business can't be put on TiVo, so that's the cost of absence. The discussion was held, and agreement among the six present was reached. Executive prudence required us to move forward, and the gavel was dropped.

Give me some time and I will make the changes. I have put about 30 hours into this project and the web site. If any of you want to give it a shot yourselves, please put it forward. I have to fit this in around my job and marriage, just like the rest of you. Please respect the amount of time it takes to generate and manipulate these images. There is a reason those companies charge so much for design services. I think it is great that we can do this on a local level, and make adjustments fairly easily.

Bottom line- I will work on and post two more versions. One will be with crests and flags on the sleeves, and the other will be with the aforementioned on the back pockets. I will need to put in some work to make it flow and not disrupt the clean lines with curves or intersections. Then we can poll (even though that was frowned upon at the meeting), and good-taste-be-damned, we'll send the result to Voler.

And FFS, be nice about it.


Last edited by eurotrash on Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by Road_Rage on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:41 am

MJ wrote:The EPA estimates that about 28% of methane emissions are from bovine-feces, emissions, and belching.

I bet you have been waiting a lifetime to quote that study.
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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by Jonesy on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:39 am

Before this thread erupts into vitriol and sarcasm, let's all remember we are cyclists and friends and above all adults.
I do think there were several design elements that were considered absolute must, the flags and the webpage being among them. We should probably figure out how to work them into the final design.
If the bit about the taxes was meant as a humorous way of dealing with the flags, I for one missed the humor. If it was a disingenuous way to remove the flags against the consent of the club, I'll be very blunt and say that it was in poor form, but the intentions were probably well meant.
As to the fashion element, let's not get too worked up, these ARE cycling kits and we mostly look like deuches wearing them anyway--let's be honest.
John and Mike have both put in a LOT of time and effort into this project. Time they give willingly, and time they could spend doing other things. I for one, am very appreciative of that.
Maybe we could just keep the design essentially as is, but give John the creative license neccessary to finalize the design, but keeping the core elements which have always included the flags. This was kind of my understanding from the last meeting.

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by Jonesy on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:52 am

Also,
I don't think we need multiple designs and another vote.
That's why we brought it up at the meeting and the way forward we voted on was to give John creative license to fine-tune the general design we all agreed on.
If the final product looks generally like the last picture posted, and has flags somewhere on it, we're good to go.

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Re: KMC Cycling Team Store - Voler

Post by eurotrash on Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:48 am

I've been brainstorming flag placement, and how to make it fit with the appropriate flair. I need to put some time into it at home on my personal computer, but we'll get the flags and crests in there. Probably move the motto to accomodate it.

As discussed in the meeting, I will be vigilant to ensure that the kit, bibs included, won't look like 1920's swimwear or a Popeye costume, and we'll all feel real cool wearing it. Like Jonesy hinted, what "looking cool" means is probably like the gang in the MTV version of Michael Jackson's Beat It...

If at this point anybody wants to get involved, I can upload all of the .PSD files to my SkyDrive for public access.

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